Think Tank (Fri)
Click below to "Like" Wrestling News World on Facebook or "Send" to help promote our page:
NEW THINK TANK QUESTION
“It’s 1988 in the WWF. Randy Savage is the WWF Champion, and Hulkamania is still runnin’ wild. With that in mind my last Think Tank question before the Professor returns to the pulpit is quite simple. Who was the greater wrestler during this era, Savage or Hogan?”
PREVIOUS THINK TANK QUESTION
“Today’s question is simple. The Royal Rumble is this Sunday. Who ya got winning the Rumble?”
THE FRONTMAN’S STAGE
Today is the last time I will be gracing the stage for you fine members of the audience as the leader of the Think Tank. Next Monday will see the return of our esteemed Professor Rick Craig as he will debate today’s topic of Macho Man vs. Hulkster. I personally would like to thank the members of the audience for listening to my rantings and ravings the past two weeks, and I look forward to seeing you all once again after the Rumble this Sunday.
As for my pick, well I hate that I am going with the obvious answer, but I will explain to you why I am picking Chris Jericho to win the Rumble. First of all, Jericho has mentioned that if he were to come back to WWE he wanted to do something that he has never done before. Well the first thing that comes to mind is winning the Rumble. Jericho has never won the Rumble, and that is about the only blemish on his superb wrestling legacy. After winning the Rumble in some sort of underhanded way, I look for him to cut one helluva a heel promo either at the Rumble or the next night on RAW as he hopefully starts his long awaited feud with CM Punk. They need to do something big with Jericho and nothing would be bigger than winning the Rumble.
If it weren’t for the fact that Jericho has not won a Rumble, I probably would have went with a SmackDown star to win the Rumble, as Jericho doesn’t need a Royal Rumble victory to feud with Punk. Let’s pretend that Jericho has won a Rumble and isn’t my pick, and I will go through guys who I would have picked to win, while presenting three different scenarios to you.
The first scenario is Daniel Bryan retains the World Heavyweight Championship (which I think will happen). If Bryan wins, than the obvious Rumble winner would have to be Randy Orton. Thus setting the stage for what would be a wrestling clinic at WrestleMania. I hope Vince McMahon realizes that he has the cards in place for possibly the greatest WrestleMania ever. Cena vs. Rocky, Punk vs. Jericho, Orton vs. Bryan, Rhodes vs. Runnels (which has been teased), and Taker vs. HHH. The event is going to sell itself with Rocky and Cena, and with those other main event caliber matches, you would be looking at possibly the greatest WrestleMania ever.
Scenario number two sees The Big Show winning the World Heavyweight Championship at the Rumble. If Show does win, you can all but hand the Rumble to Wade Barrett. Barrett has been phenomenal since the start of his barrage, and regardless of any outcomes this Sunday I see him being the next heel to hold the World Heavyweight Championship. Only Daniel Bryan’s work has been better on SmackDown. It’s nice to see these guys in the limelight, and it’s nice to see Vince giving them a chance.
Scenario number three sees Mark Henry winning the World Heavyweight Championship at the Rumble. If Henry were to win, than I would have to pick Sheamus to win the Rumble. You could pick Orton here also, but I think Orton would be much better served in a wrestling match at Mania against Bryan, or with Barrett (as their score has not been settled). This would be the perfect opportunity for Sheamus to reassert himself back into the top of the card. The man has worked beyond hard in the past year, to the point that he turned himself face because of how much the fans enjoyed his attitude.
Of course Jericho is my top pick, but I would keep an eye for all three of these scenarios in case Vince throws a curveball at us.
As for a dark horse pick, the first man that comes to my mind is Christian. Christian’s work as a heel has been superb and he deserves another championship run, and he deserves a run where he is actually booked like a champion. Add to that the fact that Edge is going into the Hall this year, and you have a possible storybook style scenario. I will also give you a second dark horse pick in Drew McIntyre, as they are obviously setting him up for something big by having him lose so much. He’s too talented to be jobbing out like this for no reason (unless he is being humbled). At some point McIntyre is going to return like a mad man.
It has been my pleasure to discuss wrestling with you fine folks, and you’ll be hearing from me soon
“Frontman Takes His Bow”
DH
Click below to follow the official Twitter page of Wrestling News World:Follow @wnwnews
Thank you so much for visiting! There are not words to describe how appreciative I am of your visit. It is my commitment to provide you with accurate pro wrestling news, rumors, results and analysis in a format that is easy-to-read and readily available. Please know that we take your support very seriously and are here to serve you. Enjoy the website and I look forward to interacting with you!
Am i still the only person that sees taker as a possible winner, leading to taker/bryan.
That would not be feasible for one simple reason: Look at the last three matches Taker's done at WM: Trips and 2 with HBK. Wouldn't you agree with me that Daniel Bryan would be a little bit of a letdown even through D-Bry is in the top five best pure wrestlers in the world? Besides, I'm not a fan of Taker chasing titles at this point in his career and certainly not at WrestleMania because then it becomes obvious that Taker wins. I prefer matches like last year's where Taker literally has to put everything out there. Though it was probably just storyline, the sight of the Deadman being stretchered out (for the first and only time in his career if I'm not mistaken) is one that will be forever burned into the minds of anyone who saw the match.
As i said in think tank on wed. Yes we know taker would win, but a heel champ that will do anything even sacrifices his gf would give it a twist, plus give bryan a chance to prove himself for the next two months, also i believe after having a year off he could give full time till sumerslam
i don't think you understand how banged up taker is. his whole body is banged up. he doesn't have the ability to work a full schedule anymore, and he is at the point where he doesn't need titles anymore. he doesn't need to beat Bryan or anyone for that matter for the championship. it's just not possible. Taker doesn't need to put his body through that anymore.
For today, i was six in 88 and as a wrestling fan in the UK, we had the hulk hogan cartoon. Films like Mr nanny or just hulkamania in general, so as a kid(much like with cena’s today)i wanted him to be able to powers andre the giant or overcome the odds.he was wrestling. If you asked my knowledge of first state side back then it would be the ‘ brands’ i knew of Joe montana’s 49ers or marines dolphins, Wayne gretzki, the Chicago bulls or Michael Jordan, but nothing else. Looking back though from a adults pov it has to be macho man, promos, elbow drops,commentary and miss Elizabeth, i believe randys gimmick would work today(i did love jay leathals parody) so my pick is mmrs.
Note: I wasn't alive in 1988.
In judging a wrestler, I look at a couple things: promo skills, wrestling ability, look, charisma, storytelling and in ring psychology. Hogan in the 80s excelled in being a talker, charismatic showman, and maintaining a look of a Greek God. However, Hogan was never a great wrestler. Despite being a memorable match, his match with Andre the Giant for example wasn't technically pleasing, or any pleasing at all in the wrestling department. The slam was impressive, the storytelling was there, but the actual wrestling was lackluster. Hogan's greatest match was with, well, Randy Savage, at Wrestlemania V. As much of an entertainment company WWE is, and Hogan being the frontman at the time, the bottom line for me is wrestling ability. Hogan could go in the ring, just not as good as Savage, in this debate. Probably the only match I know that Hogan had to carry and take control of was him and Warrior from WMVII, which was actually a good match.
Onto Savage, he was the showman WWE loved, but also an amazing wrestler. So, all tool player. I like his promos more than Hogan because there is madness in it, but with method. Hogan would just have one speed, and at times be one dimensional. Savage would be crazy and loud, yet slow and serious. A promo that had Savage up and down and covering a lot of bases was in Wrestlemania III when he hyped up his match with Steamboat. He was loud, he calmed down, he was crazy, but it all came together in promoting his match. Simply put, Savage was more dynamic, diverse on the microphone.
As far as look, he looked more realistic than Hulk Hogan. While Hogan's build was insane, it represented the cartoonish aspect of WWE, and the jacked up meathead look that still exists today. Savage was a good average height as a wrestler, and his physique was much more viable. Viable in the sense that anyone can beat up on him, and he'd make a realistic comeback: he could dominate a match and be dominated as a result and make all the sense in the world. Hogan would make a comeback that would be so cued and ridiculous, I think moreso than Cena's comebacks. However, I guess appropriate for the 80s, when a leg drop apparently counted as a finisher. So, realistic and impressive look.
Wrestling wise, Savage was one of the best of all time. Looking at him in comparison to a lot of guys at the time, he was ahead of the curve. To prove that, he had a match with Ricky Steamboat at Wrestlemania III that was way ahead of it's time. The pace, fluidity, and balanced back and forth they displayed was something that would be more prominent in the 90s, and even fit in the current generation. It was that futuristic. It's a match that stands the test of time, because it went past the current time, it traveled to the future. Savage basically was a faster paced wrestler than Hogan, much more well conditioned, as I trust him going 30+ minutes over Hogan. He had the power game, but had tremendous technique.
Wrapping it all together was Randy's attention to detail. I hear of him as a detail freak who planned everything out like an intricate blueprint. I heard that he and Steamboat's match was planned months in advance. Like a perfectionist, Randy had more of a passion to go to work in the ring and put on spectacles. Oh and Miss Elizabeth was an incredible presence for Savage.
In 1988, it looked like while Savage was on top as WWE champion, Hogan was the uncrowned champion, according to fans. Randy was number 2, and it would be the basis of the Savage and Hogan feud that lit up at Wrestlemania V. Savage's popularity increased, and he had the support of fans, but Hogan was still in his peak in popularity. I bet it overshadowed Savage at times. Especially since a good deal of Savage's title reign was teaming up with buddy Hulk Hogan. However at Wrestlemania IV, Savage proved he was WWE champion material by wrestling a tournament, each match being great, leading up to the entertaining Savage/DiBiase match.
Very well done, Chapel, as that's the long version of what I was thinking. I'll add one thing as it relates to Savage-Steamboat. The Dragon was just as much of a detail freak as Savage, as evidenced by Steamboat's feud with Flair that went on for a great deal of both of their early careers.
I can't agree with you more. Everything you said is 100% true. I wasn't alive in 1988 either(b. April 1991) but Macho Man will always be one of my favorites. btw, I heard that Hogan actually could wrestle, but he only did it in Japan, pre-WWE.
Blitz here. Dan, we've enjoyed having you here the past two weeks. Well done, and a very interesting final question.
If I can do it without getting booed, I typically like to compare WWF's Hogan and Macho with the NWA's Ric Flair and Arn Anderson. Double A was always overshadowed by Ric Flair, but he was simply far better in the ring and (in my opinion) cut more realistic promos. Now take that sentence and put Macho in Double A's spot and Hogan in Flair's spot, and you have my opinion of the matter. I choose the Macho Man for his in-ring wrestling, more captivating and realistic promos, Miss Elizabeth (of course!), and his ability to seamlessly transition between face and heel (and back again).
Most people are going to say Savage probably. While I think Savage's talents far outreached Hulk's as far as match quality, I have to default to the Al Snow point of view. The main event puts butts in seats, Hulk worked more mains during this time, he made more money, he made more money for the company, and he sold more merch……I have to give the nod to Hogan on this, even though Macho fits my personal preference, this is really more of a business based answer.
i'm going to be commenting now since Rick will be taking back over on Monday.
I find the comparison between Savage and Hogan to be a lot more difficult to decipher. While Savage was excellent in the ring and ahead of his time, Hogan was no slouch. Most of the audience is absolutely correct in bringing this point up, but in no was Hogan a terrible wrestler. He wasn't as technical as Savage, but he did the most important thing that an American professional wrestler needs to do when performing in America, and that is entertain the crowd. Hogan was obviously a good wrestler, especially considering the fact that he was trained by Verne Gagne, and was damn close to becoming AWA Champion. Gagne didn't put just anyone in his main events (though Hogan's lack of pure wrestling ability would lead to Gagne not wanting to strap Hogan, and thus Hogan left for WWE) Hogan was also a smart businessman. He saw the changing landscape much like Vince McMahon and like it or not he had a character that was so over he was WWF Champion for over four years…FOUR YEARS!!!
As Hogan was the guy that 1980's WWF was built around, he would obviously continue to be McMahon's go to guy. Hogan's biggest downfall is that he and McMahon (i would think more so McMahon) would not let Hulkamania drop, as evidenced by Hogan defeating Yokozuna in that ridiculous conclusion to WrestleMania IX. While Hulkamania was still popular in 1988, there was no denying that Savage got himself over with the crowd just as much as Hogan was. Go watch WrestleMania IV (which coincidentally is one of the better WrestleMania's of all time) and just check out the reactions that Savage was getting. Take into account that a year before he was a heel and losing to Ricky Steamboat at WrestleMania III in a match most of you in the audience have already spoken of. That showed just how much Savage could over with pure talent, much like Hogan. The only problem Savage had looking back on it was that Hogan was Vince's boy, and you know how Vince gets with his big guys. Hogan was the man, and Savage was his number 2. No matter how many times Savage went out there and stole the show, he would always be #2 in Vince's minds. But the fans back then knew that they were seeing greatness.
When it came to being a heel, Savage was a pro, but Hogan proved years later he could be a great heel also, but we are only talking about 80's WWF here.
as for promo's Savage was the master of all promo types. While Hogan only had one speed with his promos, Savage could go from Ultimate Warrior to Jake Roberts with a snap of his fingers (and many times he did do that). A attribute that not many wrestlers posses.
so in conclusion:
Ability to Get Over: Draw
Promos: Slight Edge to Savage
Ability to milk the business for all its worth: Draw
In Ring Ability: Savage (you can even make the argument that Hogan's greatest match ever was against Savage at WrestleMania V, the culmination of one of the greatest feuds in WWF/E history).
Charisma: Draw
Look: Draw (Savage was not a small man…just sayin)
Finisher: Savage by a mile
If time has taught us anything it is that Savage was just as responsible for the 80's wrestling boom as Hogan was, and Savage was more responsible than Hogan for ushering the WWE into the 1990's. His match against Warrior at WMVII was one of the all time great WrestleMania matches, and his match with Flair at WMVIII was just one of their many great encounters. Meanwhile Hogan had mostly forgettable matches and feuds with Money Inc (been there done that), Yokozuna, and Sid Justice. Towards the end Hulkamania had to be forced down our throats…you never had to force Savage down anyones throat, and that's why he gets my nod over Hogan in this debate.
oh and of course the lovely First Lady of Wrestling Miss Elizabeth is a huge advantage for Savage. Even when she was with Hogan, it just wasn't the same.
@ Blitz…you can insert Barry Windham into the Arn Anderson slot when being compared to Flair also. but i must disagree that AA could better promos than Flair. Flair is one of the best ever, being surpassed by only Rocky and Savage in my opinion.
Well mind you, what constitutes a good promo differs from person to person. And I fully agree that Barry Windham can be in the discussion just as much as AA. Flair cut great promos, but his STYLE of promos just wasn't as good as AA's to me.
Savage was the better performer, no question. He was better in the ring and at promos than Hogan was. BUT! None of that matters really because Hogan was more over with the people. At that point in time Hulkamania was EVERYWHERE. It was ridiculous how over Hogan was with basically everyone in the world. At that time he was arguably the most recognizable athlete in the world. I say athlete because this was back when pro-wrestling was still thought of as real by a lot of people. Way before “sports entertainment”. So IMO Hulk Hogan was the greater wrestler at the time. I feel that way even though Savage was ultimately better in the ring and at promos than Hogan was. Because Hogan had achieved a level of success that Savage could only dream of. Even though he was clearly the more talented of the two. But the question was who was “the greater” wrestler of the two, and I took that to mean who was the most successful out of the two. And that was unquestionably Hulk Hogan.